En attendant Lucile2

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En attendant Lucile2
Message de ruofei posté le 08-05-2005 à 12:07:47 (S | E | F | I)
Bonjour à tous,
Je n'ai pas pu m'empêcher de vous proposer cette traduction
/

Tu vois Lucile, le proverbe ne ment pas: "Quand le chat n'est pas la les souris dansent!" Il suffit que tu t'absentes pour que Jammy se mette à proposer des exercices de traduction! Et je crois que ce n'est que le début... "Voilà je suis devenu accroc": il la dit lui-même!
Un nouveau phénomène semble se profiler: la Lucile Mania!
N'ayez crainte. La dépendance peut être extrême, mais elle ne fait aucun mal à personne!
Une nouvelle génération d'apprenants d'anglais est née..les Lucile-maniaques!

"See you sooooooonnnn "...vous voyez, quand je disais qu'on devenait vite dependants!!

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Editpar bridg le 08-05-2005 12:12
+titre

de Ruofei: désolee, les accents n'apparaissent pas quand j'édite un post.
Help Bridg, please! J'ai des gros problèmes de mise en page!
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Edité par bridg le 08-05-2005 12:40
règlé

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de bridg, postée le 08-05-2005 à 13:14:13 (S | E)
Ne désespère pas, je travaille dessus mais je te hais autant que Lucile et Jammy

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de ruofei, postée le 08-05-2005 à 13:45:39 (S | E)
Bridg!
"je t'aime, moi non plus"

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de jammy, postée le 08-05-2005 à 14:27:01 (S | E)
coucou! je vais maintenant passer de l'autre coté... Je suis fatigué après tant de corrections mais je ferai ta traduction plus tard! Ruofei la lucile mania épuise, en plus je crois qu'elle est revenue... Je me défile discrètement à plus tard...
Je t'aime fort fort bridgette!

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Edité par bridg le 08-05-2005 14:48

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de lucile83, postée le 08-05-2005 à 15:28:23 (S | E)
non Jammy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tu ne te défiles pas !!!!!!!!!!!!

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de jardin62, postée le 08-05-2005 à 15:33:10 (S | E)
Ah, non! s'il se défile il faut lui donner une punition! jammy j'ai fait les phrases demandées en échange de mes erreurs dans ta 2ème traduction.
ruofei, a bientôt, mais je te jure que c'est bien parce que c'est vous...

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de bridg, postée le 08-05-2005 à 15:52:33 (S | E)
You see Lucile, the proverb doesn’t lie:” while the cat’s away, the mice will play”
You just go away then Jammy rushes to purpose ~~some~~ translations! ~~Then~~ And I think it’s the begining …” And now I become addicted “he says!
A new phenomenon seems to appear “la Lucile mania”!
Don’t worry, to be under control could be intense but it doesn’t hurt anybody!
A new English learner generation was born: the Lucile-maniacs

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Edité par bridg le 08-05-2005 16:04

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de jardin62, postée le 08-05-2005 à 16:00:33 (S | E)
Avant tout, ruo fei, promets-moi que si je fais des constructions 'erronées' -pour citer jammy-, tu ne me donneras pas des phrases à faire devant tout le monde. ruo fei tu as toute ma reconnaissance.

'See lucile? Sayings don't lie: "When the cat is away the mice will play!'
You only have to leave and jammy starts suggesting translation exercises. And I think it's just the beginning(the beginning of the end!)...'There you are! I have become addicted.' He is the one who said it.
A new phenomenon seems in view: the lucile-mania.
Don't worry. The addiction may be far beyond words, it's harmless though.
A new generation of English learners is born: the lucile-fans/ (pas maniacs quand même?)'

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de lucile83, postée le 08-05-2005 à 16:08:06 (S | E)
Hello

You see Lucile, the proverb doesn’t lie :” while the cat’s away, the mice will play”. You just go away and then Jammy starts proposing translations ! and I think it is only the beginning…… “ here you are, I am exercises addicted “: he said so !
A new phenomenon seems to appear : the Lucilemania !
Don’t worry. The dependence can be extreme, but it doesn’t hurt anyone !
A new generation of English learners was born…..the Lucilemaniacs !

See you soon

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de lucile83, postée le 08-05-2005 à 16:29:05 (S | E)
Ne vous inquiétez pas, je veille au grain !! même si je ne me connecte que 5 mn je sais qui a fait quoi, comment, pourquoi.....

Ah !!! ces profs !!! même en écrivant au tableau ils voient ce qui se passe derrière eux !!!!

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de jammy, postée le 08-05-2005 à 17:54:35 (S | E)
C’est original…

You see Lucile, the proverb doesn’t lie: « When the cat’s away the mice will dance » Hardly have you left than jammy takes to suggesting translation exercises! And I think it’s far from ending… “That’s it I am an addict” He told it himself! A new phenomenon seems to be emerging: The Lucile mania!
Don’t worry. Its dependence can be extreme, but it is harmless to everybody!
A new English learner generation was born… The Lucile-maniacs

A bentôt... il paraît qu'elle est revenue...ça marche

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de post-scriptum, postée le 08-05-2005 à 18:08:47 (S | E)
Bonsoir ruofei, bonsoir à toutes et à tous,

As you see Lucile, the proverb doesn't tell lies: "When the cat is away, the mice can play"! You had just gone away when jammy started to suggest some translation exercises. And I believe it's only the beginning… "So I became addicted" he said this himself. A new phenomenon seems to emerge : the Lucile-mania! Don't worry! If the dependence can be very great, this certainly doesn't make any trouble to anybody! A new generation of English learners were born: the Lucile-maniacs!

Merci beaucoup.

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Edité par post-scriptum le 08-05-2005 18:09
Edité par post-scriptum le 09-05-2005 13:12

plusieurs corrections dans le texte (merci beaucoup ruofei)

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de isa71, postée le 08-05-2005 à 21:54:45 (S | E)
hello

You see Lucile ,the proverb doesn't lie:"When the cat is away the mice will dance !" You just go away then Jammy starts to suggest some translation exercises!
Then I think it's only the beginning..."Here I become addicted":He said it himself!
A new phenomenon seems to profile:The Lucile mania!"
Don't worry,the dependance can be extreme,but it doesn't hurt anyone!
A new generation of English learners was born...The Lucile-maniacs!

Ruofei

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de ruofei, postée le 08-05-2005 à 23:59:46 (S | E)
Bonjour à tous,
du bon travail pendant que je dormais! Bravo!
J'envoie quelques mp avant de me préparer "pour l'école" .
A tout de suite!

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de ruofei, postée le 09-05-2005 à 16:14:57 (S | E)
Bonsoir ,
Me revoici donc avec ma proposition en 2 versions:

1) un language plutot relache(dans l'esprit de depart, en fait)
See Lucile, the proverb doesn't lie: "While the cat's away, mice will play!" You just have to be out and Jammy comes in, proposing translation exercises. And I think, this is just the beginning: "That's it, I've got addicted!" He said so himself!
A new phenomenon is coming right up: the Lucile mania.
Don't worry. The dependence can be hardcore, but it doesn't do anybody any harm..
A new generation of English learners has been (is) born: the Lucile maniacs!

2) langage plus standard, celui que l'on retiendra
As you can see Lucile, the proverb does not lie: "While the cat is away, mice will play!?You only have to be away for Jammy to start proposing translations exercises. I believe this has barely begun: "Here I am, addicted" He said so himself.
A new phenomenon seems to be in the offing: the Lucile mania.
Never fear. The dependence may be extreme, but it does not do anyone any harm.
A new generation of English learners has been (is) born: the Lucile maniacs.

Un grand pour vos efforts et votre bon travail!
A bientot.

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Edit?par ruofei le 10-05-2005 08:58

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de masselotte, postée le 09-05-2005 à 16:32:29 (S | E)
Bonsoir à toutes et à tous
merci ruofei

I'm sorry Ruofei,I can't translate your text, because I have read all the post which ~~had~~ are/have been published ,and I am going to ~~serve of~~ use it to built my own translation
ben voilà! j'ai quand même fait ma petite traduction, merci Ruofei

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Edité par serena le 10-05-2005 01:53

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de traviskidd, postée le 09-05-2005 à 17:34:17 (S | E)
You see Lucile, the proverb doesn't lie: "When the cat's away the mice will play!" All it takes is you leaving for a bit for Jammy to start proposing his own translation exercises. And I believe it's just the beginning. "That's it, I'm hooked!": he said so himself!
A new phenomenon seems to be taking shape: Lucile-mania!
Fear not. The addiction may be intense, but it is harmless.
A new generation of English-learners has been born: the Lucile-maniacs!

You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucile! --Kenny Rogers

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de ruofei, postée le 10-05-2005 à 02:41:21 (S | E)
Hello Travis,
Something interesting here:

I decided to choose the use the present in this sentence:
"A new generation is born" ('was' would have brought us back to another period in the past"...at least I think it would)

Now, you came up with a present perfect...
Would you see the use of present as wrong, here?
Would past simple be better anyway?

PS(Masselotte): pour ta "petite tranduction"
Parfois, écrire de simples phrases comme ça, aide plus que traduire de laborieuses traductions. Continue, tu es !!!

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de serena, postée le 10-05-2005 à 02:55:47 (S | E)
This generation has just been born.
So, why using another tense ? The simple past doesn't fit either.

I find Travis's translation quite perfect. I'll ~~leave~~ let him explain this to you better.

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Edité par serena le 10-05-2005 09:55
Corrigé.

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de traviskidd, postée le 10-05-2005 à 07:36:27 (S | E)

Hi ruofei!

Between was born and has been born, the latter is clearly the better choice, since the birth of this new generation is still seen in our minds as a present fact, with present consequences.

Is born is not wrong, but it's a little unclear whether "born" is meant as an adjective ("né") or "to be born" is meant as a verb ("naître").

-----------------

Actually, on reflection, there are a lot of things worth discussing here!

For convenience, I'll use the following abbreviations: PP (present passive), PA (present adjective), PPP (present perfect passive), and PPA (present perfect adjective).

1) Although past participles are often used as adjectives, using a past participle as an adjective is not the same as using the passive voice! The difference is subtle, although French, with its "on", does a better job than English of making the distinction:

I am stunned. (PP/PA)
On m'étonne. (PP)
Je suis étonné. (PA)

But English does make the distinction in a few cases, where the adjective is a little different from the past participle. For example:

Eggs are burned in this kitchen all the time! (PP)
Don't eat those eggs; they're burnt! (PA)

2) PPP and PA can have essentially the same meaning. For example, The eggs have been burned means essentially the same thing as The eggs are burnt. The only difference is that PPP makes explicit the fact that something has happened to make the eggs burnt, whereas PA simply says that they're burnt now.

However, there are several uses of the present perfect, so PPP and PA are not always similar. For example I've been hurt before doesn't mean I'm hurt (which might then be followed by Call an ambulance!).

3) When the participle is the same as the adjective, care might need to be taken when deciding between PP and PA (which is essentially the same as PPP). But usually this can be gleaned from context. (An adverb of frequency probably implies PP, for example.)

I'm surprised that you could think such a thing! (PA)
I am often surprised with roses by my husband. (PP)

Similarly, care may be needed to distinguish between PPP and PPA.

4) PPA is almost never applied to the verb "to be born". (In other words, I have been born is almost never said in the sense of J'ai été né ... which I'm sure is almost never said in French either!) However, both PP and PA can be applied to "to be born".

5) By comment 2, is born (PA) and has been born (PPP) are both valid. However, the use of "is born" is a little confusing, because, as comment 3 imples, the reader will have to take some time to decide that PP is not what's meant. But, as comment 4 says, there is no such confusion with "has been born".

6) Although French distinguishes better between PP and PA, it doesn't do as good a job distinguishing beteween PA and PC (passé composé ) when the verb is an "être" verb. Hence Je suis né could mean any of the following:

A. I was born.
B. I have been born. (PPP)
(A. and B. follow the usual rules of translating the passé composé.)
C. I am born. (PA) [PP = Je nais.]

Luckily, I ruled out A. at the beginning of this post, and I have already explained why B. and C. are nearly equivalent!

And finally, I have explained why B. is better than C., and hence, in translating the last sentence of your exercise, has been born is the best choice.

-----------------

Wow! An entire exposé, just to explain how to translate your last sentence! Who would have thought? Please, Serena, next time don't leave it to me!

You know, I should be getting paid for this!

P.S. Is being born (naît; est en train de naître) would also make sense (but it doesn't faithfully translate est née).

P.P.S. Serena ... I'll let Travis explain or I'll leave it to Travis to explain.

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Edité par traviskidd le 10-05-2005 08:20
lots of proofreading!

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de lucile83, postée le 10-05-2005 à 08:18:45 (S | E)
Hello,
Serena was quite right to leave it to you to explain !!!
that's a wonderful explanation, thanks a lot !
see you soon

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de ruofei, postée le 10-05-2005 à 09:25:46 (S | E)
Wow! Travis...thanks for your lecture ...I couldn't have expected better!
Yes, I guess I could start paying you...but considering that 1RMB (Chinese currency) = $0.1...I'm afraid you wouldn't make a fortune with me !!

We should plan on organising virtual classes on the forum or in the chat room. Voluntary teachers would give lessons and student-members could ask online for further explanations. That'd be a funny thing to do

Encore !!

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de serena, postée le 10-05-2005 à 09:53:21 (S | E)

WOW !!!! What a job !!
I didn't expect such a lesson either !

Well, I knew what I was doing when I left this job to you, Travis !
It was too hard for me....
Very many thanks. Once more, this is to be printed and learnt (ed ?? ).
Also thanks for "burned / burnt". I never knew they could be used this way.

PS: About being paid.....().....is this ok ? : .

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de traviskidd, postée le 10-05-2005 à 18:14:57 (S | E)
Well, the webmaster certainly does more than any of us, so I guess if anyone is paid, it should be him.

But yes, the facts that in English to be born is an essentially passive verb, and that in French naître is an "être" verb, give rise to many different issues regarding how to translate this verb from one language to the other, which I felt needed to be explored thoroughly. I hope my long explanation didn't end up boring you!

Serena: it is learned, not "learnt", for both the participle and the adjective (although the British may disagree ). There is also the adjective learned (pronounced "learn-ed") which means "educated".

He was a very learned man, but he was also very absent-minded.

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de serena, postée le 10-05-2005 à 18:32:43 (S | E)
Don't worry about webmaster. I seize any opprotunity to pay him with..... (). This is the least I can do.

About "learned", you're right, the British don't agree. But I've just learned a new word : learned = educated. So, it's ok !

. Infiniment.

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Edité par serena le 10-05-2005 18:34
Tiens! Mon message est tout rose !

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de traviskidd, postée le 10-05-2005 à 18:40:35 (S | E)
Not anymore!

For some reason, I had FONT instead of /FONT at the end, and so my pink wasn't turned off, and it carried over into your post!

P.S. I finally get that you were paying me with !! Yes, of course it's ok.

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Edité par serena le 10-05-2005 19:05

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de serena, postée le 10-05-2005 à 19:04:10 (S | E)
Ah ok ! I see. Well, it was not so awful in pink, but I was just afraid everybody would think I was becoming too much romantic ! .....

Réponse: En attendant Lucile2 de axis, postée le 12-05-2005 à 14:46:46 (S | E)
Coucou,

Super vos traductions et explications.... j' ai pas réussi à toutes les traduire et surtout à les comprendre.... mon vieux cerveau fatigué bug sans arrêt.....

Mais bon je vais bien finir par y parvenir....
bonne journée...

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