T become R in americain

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Message de werriy58 posté le 2004-08-13 15:08:08 (S | E | F | I)
Hi everybody !
Au cours du soir d'anglais, un professeur nous a appris qu'en Anglais Americain quand le "T" est entre deux voyelles on le prononce comme "R". Par exemple :
1) British = (birich)
2) City = (siri)
3) Saturday = (saredi)
4) Get in = (gerin)
5) Wait a bite = (werebit)
6) Setting = (sirin)
7) Get up = (gerap) etc
mais quand j'essaie de suivre les américains parler à la Télé j'entends on dirait le son (sound) de "D" qui sort au lieu de "R"
donc :
1) British = (bidich)
2) City = (sidi)
3) Saturday = (sadedi)
4) Get in = (gedin)
5) Wait a bite (wedebit)
6) Setting = (sidin)
7) Get up = (gedap) etc
Quel son (sound) l'on sort exactement quand "T" est entre deux voyelles ?
You are welcome please !
werriy58

Réponse: re:T become R in americain de andrewfsi, postée le 2004-08-13 16:35:57 (S | E)
Haha, no, I've never heard ANY Americans say R instead of T. You are right that sometimes a T is pronounced something like a D--we call this a "flip". It sounds like a D, but you only flip your tongue quickly against the alveolum (the ridge above your upper teeth). It only occurs in certain places--specifically, when the T or TT is between two vowels and the syllable following the T or TT is NOT accented. For example

attic ~ "AD-ic"
attack ~ "a-TACK"

reticent ~ "RED-uh-suhnt"
retain ~ "ree-TAIN"'

(Obviously these are only approximated transliterations...I'm no linguist)

Réponse: re:T become R in americain de serena, postée le 2004-08-13 16:42:12 (S | E)
Bonjour, werriy58

Tu sais, l'anglais américain n'est pas du tout différent de celui de grande-bretagne ( A part quelques mots qu'on ne traduit pas de la même façon, bien sûr ).
Ton prof voulait sûrement vous aider à comprendre la langue parlée des américains. Et c'est très bien !
Mais je ne crois pas que se soit une règle général. J'avais eu une américaine pour professeur, et elle prononçait bien le "T" entre deux voyelles. Par contre, avec d'autres, j'entendais des "R" et des "D" comme tu dis.
Sur CNN, certains journalistes prononcent aussi bien les "R" et "D" que les "T".
C'est un peu comme nous qui ne parlons pas avec la même vitesse ni le même accent.

Enfin...c'est ce que je pense.

Qu'en diraient les américains membres de ce site ?
Traviskidd, help again please !

Réponse: re:T become R in americain de traviskidd, postée le 2004-08-13 19:03:16 (S | E)
Traviskidd au secours!

In fact andrewfsi said it well.

In American speech, if a T occurs between two syllables, with the first being stressed, the T will sound like a D. (It never sounds like R, except maybe the rolled Spanish R.)

So for instance the words bitter and bidder sound the same.

Note that we are aware of the distinction between the pronunciation of bitter and that of bidder, but in everyday speech we don't make this distinction.

Other cases that are similar:

If the letters NT occur between two syllables, with the first being stressed, the T is not prounounced.

Hence winter is pronounced like winner, and twenty rhymes with penny.

If the letters SY occur, it will sound like SH

So bless you becomes "blesh you".
And passion is pronounced "pashon" (here the pronunciation really is correct).

In fact the rule applies not only to the letters themselves but to the sounds. The word information comes from French, where the T is pronounced like an S. Hence the TI becomes an SY, and is pronounced SH. "informashon"

The sounds ZY will form ZH (the French J).

So pleasure becomes "plezhur". (The "u" is long, so it contains the Y.)

The sound ZH does not otherwise exist in English except in words of foreign origin. (massage, Dr. Zhivago)

The sound TY becomes CH (the French TCH)

So infatuation becomes "infachuashon".

And finally, the sound DY becomes J (the French DJ)

So Did you? becomes "Didjou?"

There is the famous phrase Did you eat yet? which we pronounce "Jeet jet?"

I wonder if there is an "official" list of pronunciation symbols used on this forum. It would help us all to be able to write pronunciations symbolically.

-------------------
Edité par traviskidd le 2004-08-13 19:06:21

Réponse: re:T become R in americain de serena, postée le 2004-08-14 02:43:19 (S | E)
Hello, bodyguard !
Thank you to have rushed to my aid so quickly.

Well, after these comments, I'm now sure of something : I must live 10 years in the united states to be able to understand american speech !
I really can't follow an american while he's speaking, always asking before he starts : " please, try to speak slowly !" Believe me, I'm not joking !

I thought it depended on everyone's way of talking, I couldn't even imagine they could explain this !!!

All right ! Let me say that, we, members of this site, are very lucky to have an american friend who also speaks french so well ! then, we won't have many problems to be understood, will we ?

Thanks for everything, and I also congratulate andrewfsi. He's so good !

To werriy58 : j'espère que ça va mieux maintenant. Bon apprentissage de l'anglais et surtout tu peux avoir confiance en ton prof. Tu viens d'avoir la confirmation de ses dires.

A bientôt!

Réponse: to traviskidd de mariet, postée le 2004-08-14 03:15:26 (S | E)
I agree with you it would be useful if we could use phonetic symbols but I don't think it's possible to have the IPA installed here because it's a different set of characters altogether. I have downloaded a set of True Type Police letters and installed it on my computer, it works when I write with a text editor but I can't use it on my note-pad. But, who knows, maybe our favourite webmaster could work one more miracle if you ask him ?

Réponse: re:T become R in americain de serena, postée le 2004-08-14 03:25:08 (S | E)
hello, mariet
I also have the same problem with the phonetic true type. So, let's see what the webmaster will try to do. He is busy enough these days with all the updating he is doing on the site.

" A suivre... " as he would say ! ;)

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