Langues germaniques

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Message de traviskidd posté le 2004-09-25 20:31:23 (S | E | F | I)
I paraphrase willy's post from another subject:

Dutch: Ik kan het niet alleen (doen, sous-entendu).
English: I can't do it alone.
German: Ich kann es nicht allein tun.

Les langues germanniques se ressemblent !

English has the interesting property that most of its "basic" words are Germannic, but most of its "complex" words are Latin-based!

Here is an example of this, using the last five words of the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance:

English: ...liberty and justice for all.
French: ...liberté et justice pour tout.
German: ...Freiheit und Gerechtigkeit für alle.

Perhaps we can have a little fun with similarities among the Germannic languages. I'll start.

Here is a little test (try not to use a dictionary!):

1) Find the English translation of the Danish word ordbog from the following sentence: Her kan du finde en medicinsk ordbog på dansk, engelsk, tysk, eller andet.*

2) If the English word for ordbog had remained Germannic, what would it be? (Hint: ordbog is composed of ord and bog.)

(*taken from http://www.boylen.dk/sundhed.htm)

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Edité par bridg le 25-09-2004 23:16
germaniques

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Edité par bridg le 02-10-2004 16:44
l'évolution de ce forum fait qu'il passe dans "divers"

Réponse: re:Langues germanniques de willy, postée le 2004-09-25 21:01:12 (S | E)
Ici tu peux trouver un livre de commande (order book) de médicaments en danois, anglais, turc et toute autre (langue).

PS : comme disait, il y a longtemps , mon prof de grec et de latin, c'est peut être "de la haute fantaisie" !!!

!!!germanic/germanique!!! (it happens !)

I must be wrong : "order" comes from "ordre in French, "ordo" in Latin !!!
Ne serait-ce pas plutôt un dictionnaire médical (medical dictionary) ?

Réponse: re:Langues germanniques de ozymandias, postée le 2004-09-25 21:07:05 (S | E)
It is a little bit complicated if you only know English and not German or any nordic language.
The English word should be "Wordbook".
Now that you show all these examples, it's strange to see how the Germanic languages are so close.

Réponse: re:Langues germanniques de traviskidd, postée le 2004-09-25 21:13:02 (S | E)
You're right Willy, there's only one N in germanique ... as well as in the English word Germanic! Mea culpa. My mistake. Or, as we say, my bad . In fact I saw this error, but I didn't think it was worth correcting if nobody else noticed it. Unfortunately you did

As for your translation from Danish, you have correctly translated bog as livre (book). However ord is not commande (order, which is related to the French ordre and hence Latin!). Try again! (Hint: maybe following the link will help!)

And tysk = German!

Réponse: re:Langues germanniques de traviskidd, postée le 2004-09-25 21:17:11 (S | E)
So far so good ozy!

ord = word
bog = book.

So an ordbog would be a "wordbook" if the word remained Germanic in English. However, we adopted the French word instead, and so we call it a ... what?

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Edité par traviskidd le 2004-09-25 21:18:18

Réponse: re:Langues germanniques de willy, postée le 2004-09-25 21:28:44 (S | E)
A dictionary.Een woordenboek. Ein Wörterbuch.

Réponse: re:Langues germanniques de traviskidd, postée le 2004-09-25 21:31:26 (S | E)
Very good

In fact I dropped a hint of the answer when I said "Try not to use a dictionary"!

Réponse: re:Langues germanniques de willy, postée le 2004-09-25 21:43:32 (S | E)
Well done, Traviskidd !!!

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de traviskidd, postée le 2004-09-26 01:44:35 (S | E)
Thanks, willy!

Ozy ... I notice you are from Sweden! So you do know a nordic language. And I suppose you therefore know all of them (including Danish), because as I understand it they're really not all that different.

So in a sense you cheated! But it's ok.

Perhaps you can give better examples of some Germanic similarities between nordic languages and English. One that I know from Swedish is:

knife - kniv (and in the latter, the K is pronounced!)

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de andrewgardner1, postée le 2004-09-26 06:29:33 (S | E)
Hi everybody! I have another interesting tidbit to add to this subject. As far as I know, English is one of the few languages that has different words for the name of common food-animals and the meat that comes from that animal. Almost invariably, the name for the animal is Anglo-Saxon (i.e. Germanic), but the name for its meat comes from French. It is said that the conquered Anglo-Saxons were the ones raising the animals, but the conquering Normans were the ones eating them!

So, for example, we have:
THE ANIMAL --> ITS MEAT
pig/swine (Anglo-Saxon) --> pork (French)

Maybe Traviskidd would like to challenge everyone to come up with as many of these word-pairs as possible?

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Edité par andrewgardner1 le 2004-09-26 06:30:24

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Edité par andrewgardner1 le 2004-09-26 06:36:36

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de ozymandias, postée le 2004-09-26 12:39:22 (S | E)
Ok Traviskidd, in fact I'm French but I've been living in Sweden for several months and so I know just a little bit of Swedish, but Swedish, Norvegian and Danish are very close , for example :

Danish : Her kan du finde en medicinsk ordbog på dansk, engelsk, tysk, eller andet.
Swedish : Här kan du finna en medicinsk ordbok på danska, engelska, tyska eller andra.
German : Hier kannst du ein medizinisches Wörterbuch auf Dänisch, Englisch, Deutsch oder anderen finden.
English : Here you can find a medical dictionary in Danish, English, German or other.

Nordic languages are closer to German than to English but you can find a lot of words that are similar :
knife - kniv (you're right, we pronounce the k)
go - gå (same pronounciation as in English)
school - skola help - hjälpa hear - höra
often - ofta room - rum see - se
say - säga (pronounced saya)

and we can find a lot like that

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de traviskidd, postée le 2004-10-01 00:16:27 (S | E)
Very interesting, ozy! I often wonder what language the Germanic people spoke during the time of the Roman Empire. Did little Roman schoolchildren learn Teutonic in addition to Latin and Greek? Did little Germanic children learn Latin?

Andrewgardner has a point about how we choose words for animals and their meats. In general, the English word for the animal is Germanic, but the word for the meat comes from French. However, I wonder how true this really is. I can think of several counterexamples, such as:

Chicken is the meat as well as the animal. (We have the word poultry, but it is used mostly in a macro sense: a poultry farmer.)

Cow = vache and beef=bœuf In this case French also distinguises between the animal and its meat.

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de traviskidd, postée le 2004-10-01 00:20:00 (S | E)
Very interesting, ozy! I often wonder what language the Germanic people spoke during the time of the Roman Empire. Did little Roman schoolchildren learn Teutonic in addition to Latin and Greek? Did little Germanic children learn Latin?

Andrewgardner has a point about how we choose words for animals and their meats. In general, the English word for the animal is Germanic, but the word for the meat comes from French. However, I wonder how true this really is. I can think of several counterexamples, such as:

Chicken is the meat as well as the animal. (We have the word poultry, but it is used mostly in a macro sense: a poultry farmer.)

Cow = vache and beef=bœuf In this case French also distinguises between the animal and its meat.

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de willy, postée le 2004-10-01 22:11:04 (S | E)
Traviskidd, tu achètes de la viande de boeuf chez le boucher ; cette viande provient du boeuf que tu as vu dans la pâture/prairie (le pré) une semaine avant. Pas de différence, donc.
Les fermiers du village élèvent des porcs (ou : des cochons) : les deux mots sont employés.
Chez le boucher, tu peux acheter du boeuf, du porc, du veau (veal), du mouton, de la volaille càd une poule ou un poulet, une (sûrement plus, c'est très petit !) caille, un pintadeau (young guinea-fowl) et, en saison (hunting season), du gibier comme de la biche, du cerf, du chevreuil, du sanglier.

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de traviskidd, postée le 2004-10-01 22:26:14 (S | E)
Interessant, willy.

Selon wordreference.com (le dico qu'on voit si on double-clique sur un mot ici), boeuf semble signifier seulement la viande. Un boeuf, c'est vraiment un animal? C'est un autre nom pour une vache?

(Moi je ne pourrais jamais manger de la viande d'un animal que j'aurais vu vivant!)

Tu me fais rappeller un autre exemple de ce dont andrewgardner parlait:

Mutton -- the meat of a sheep.

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Edité par traviskidd le 2004-10-01 22:34:03

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de willy, postée le 2004-10-02 16:33:50 (S | E)
Hi Traviskidd.

Tu peux en croire mon expérience : mes grands-parents, des oncles, des beaux-frères et belles-soeurs (brothers-in-law/sisters-in-law) et ...mon beau-fils (son-in-law) étaient ou sont des cultivateurs/fermiers. J'ai passé la guerre à la ferme de mes grands-parents maternels et je les ai aidés pendant les vacances jusqu'à la fin des années cinquante !

Dans les prairies, tu as des vaches, des génisses (jeunes vaches), des veaux, des taureaux et des boeufs (on prononce "beu" au pluriel) qui sont des taureaux châtrés (on le fait de moins en moins maintenant parce que le taureau grossit plus vite. La viande de boeuf provient de ces animaux, sauf le veau qui est une viande à part entière.
La vache est la mère de ces animaux.
Voilà pour la leçon de français et ......d'élevage bovin (cattle breeding) !!!

Si tu as un lapin, une poule, un poulet, un dindon, un canard à tuer, fais-moi signe ..

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Edité par willy le 2004-10-02 17:05:01

Réponse: re:Langues germaniques de bridg, postée le 2004-10-02 16:42:36 (S | E)
Alors Travis il ne te reste plus qu'à être végétarien car tu peux les appeler comme tu veux, toutes le viandes proviennent d'animaux qui terminent leur parcours dans ton assiette.

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