Usage de for/aide

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Usage de for/aide
Message de gerondif posté le 26-06-2020 à 10:41:53 (S | E | F)
Bonjour
a surprising sentence from Boris Johnson's spokesman, in a Daily Mirror article :"N° 10 warns of new lockdown as 500,000 people cram onto beaches on hottest day of year"
"If the rules don't continue to be followed and the virus starts to spread exponientially again, then we will look at having to reverse some of the easements that we've put into place.
And I don't think anyone in the British public would want for that to happen."

Ce for me surprend. Je connaissais : we are wanting for bread, nous manquons de pain, nous sommes en pénurie de pain ...
want for [sth] vtr phrasal insep (need, be without) manquer de vtr ind
Note: Usually with negative.
My cute little sister never wants for attention.
Ma petite sœur toute mignonne ne manque pas d'attention.

Je pense à une analogie de construction avec : I crave for that to happen, I yearn for that to happen, ou avec une construction adjectivale, would be happy for that to happen.
La construction marcherait avec wait : I am waiting for that to happen.

Réponse : Usage de for/aide de sherry48, postée le 26-06-2020 à 14:49:48 (S | E)
Hello gerondif.
Yes, you are absolutely right. 'For' is not only not required here but is not a common option. Some times the mouth moves independent of grammar as we fail to think through what we are going to say. That happens a lot with 'it's' before the speaker realizes that they're is required. It is often corrected, but not always; that sort of error is largely ignored in conversation. Like or wish for that to happen is one thing, but I doubt that 'want for that to happen' will catch on, at least in the U.S.! Sherry

Réponse : Usage de for/aide de traviskidd, postée le 26-06-2020 à 21:24:28 (S | E)
Hello. In fact the usual rule is to put "for" in front of the subject of an infinitive clause.

-It would be a mistake for him to do that.
-For him to do that would be a mistake.

"For" is usually omitted after "want" (and "need"), but it may be used, especially when one talks about general future desires.
-I want for you to find a good wife and live a good life.
-I want for everyone to live happily ever after.

(NB: "Tell" is an exception (He told ~~for~~ me to do it), but may be used with "say" ("He said for me to do it"), though this leaves unspecified who he said it to.)

See you.

Réponse : Usage de for/aide de gerondif, postée le 26-06-2020 à 21:45:34 (S | E)
Hello Traviskidd
I can understand that pattern which I had rarely,actually never seen, applied to people, but to an event ?
What I mean is, I can understand a sentence like I accept to eat for him to be satisfied with me, but as want needs an object, can that object also be the subject of an infinitive separated from want by for?

Réponse : Usage de for/aide de traviskidd, postée le 27-06-2020 à 21:31:08 (S | E)
Hello gerondif.

In fact the object is the whole infinitive clause, which can be seen when the subjects are the same ("I want to dance" = "I want for myself to dance" (although the second formulation suggests that the dancing would be somehow involuntary)).

See you.

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