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Message de gerondif posté le 01-03-2024 à 13:25:14 (S | E | F)
Bonjour
J'ai lu récemment "Gray Mountain" (2014) de John Grisham.
Lisant armé d'un surligneur pour me remémorer les noms des personnages du jour au lendemain, quand je feuillette les pages précédentes le soir pour me remettre dans l'histoire, j'ai aussi coché un certain nombre de phrases où je sursaute en voyant ce que je trouve être une erreur de concordance des temps, le non-usage du past-perfect remplacé par un simple prétérit, tout comme le maintien de ago alors que j'aurais mis before quand le point de référence n'est plus l'instant présent :
Page 75 : "Since she would not be driving, Samantha agreed to another glass. Almost instantly, the wine seemed to hit Mattie and she began talking about her career and the legal clinic she founded twenty-six years earlier". J'aurais mis "had founded".
Page 126 : "Mrs Crump was eighty years old and looked all of it. Her husband died long ago, and her five children were scattered around the country." J'aurais mis "had died". ago se réfererait à l'instant de la rencontre entre l'avocat et Mrs Crump, before se référerait à maintenant.
Page 207 : "They were living in a car. They were from a small town just over the line in Hopper County and since they lost their home a month earlier Pamela had been looking for a lawyer to rescue them." J'aurais mis "had lost".
Page 215 : ( Une femme qui avait porté plainte pour violence conjugale et avait demandé le divorce se rétracte quelques jours plus tard) " The morning's second crisis erupted minutes later when Phoebe Fanning arrived unannounced with her husband Randy (released from jail three days before) and informed Annette she was dropping her divorce.... The two lawyers had the same thought: Did he beat her again to coerce her to drop everything?
J'aurais écrit "Had he beaten her", il n'y a pas de guillemets. Ou alors, est-ce une espèce de discours indirect libre, comme si on se replongeait dans la phrase en direct, lorsqu'elle aurait pu être prononcée ?
Page 262 : " the call came at 5:20 and the news was great. Donovan had his million-dollar verdict; three million to be exact, the amount he asked from the jury." j'aurais mis "he had asked".
Page 331 ( Un ami de l'avocat s'introduit dans une usine pour photocopier des dossiers compromettants) "He copied thousands of documents and put the originals back in the files as if nothing happened." J'aurais écrit "had happened".
Page 367 (après l'assassinat de l'avocat Donovan, la partie adverse refuse de payer) " It was unfair for the defendant to back out simply because the plaintiff's attorney was now dead... So far, no-one in Donovan's office could (had been able to) find anything in writing. It looked as though they reached (had reached) a deal on the phone, but no settlement memo was (had been) prepared before he died (had died).
Page 368 : "Francine Crump died at 4:30 that afternoon. She never regained consciousness, nor did she get around to revising the will Samantha prepared."
J'aurais mis "had prepared".
Page 368 : "She had thought about sex more in the last twenty-four hours than at any time in the last two years, since she broke up with Henry." J'aurais mis "had broken up".
Page 404 : "She closed her eyes and told him to be careful. She also knew he would spend the rest of his life trying to find the men who killed his brother." J'aurais mis "had killed".
Page 425 : "She spoke to Mr Gantry as he fetched his newspaper off the sidewalk. He was pushing ninety, lived alone since his wife died last year." J'aurais mis "had died".
Page 455 : Two days before, on Gray Mountain, Samantha had again seen the white cross marking the spot where Rose took her life." J'aurais mis "had taken".
Page 457 (Buddy, mineur silicosé, s'est suicidé, sa maladie et ses indemnités n'ayant jamais été reconnues par la mine. Les deux avocates discutent de son cas) : " I have a question for you : If Buddy had a lawyer ten years ago, what would have happened to his case ?" J'aurais mis "had had".
C'est quand même récurrent, je trouve, dans la littérature courante surtout américaine, de ne plus faire de concordance des temps.
Message de gerondif posté le 01-03-2024 à 13:25:14 (S | E | F)
Bonjour
J'ai lu récemment "Gray Mountain" (2014) de John Grisham.
Lisant armé d'un surligneur pour me remémorer les noms des personnages du jour au lendemain, quand je feuillette les pages précédentes le soir pour me remettre dans l'histoire, j'ai aussi coché un certain nombre de phrases où je sursaute en voyant ce que je trouve être une erreur de concordance des temps, le non-usage du past-perfect remplacé par un simple prétérit, tout comme le maintien de ago alors que j'aurais mis before quand le point de référence n'est plus l'instant présent :
Page 75 : "Since she would not be driving, Samantha agreed to another glass. Almost instantly, the wine seemed to hit Mattie and she began talking about her career and the legal clinic she founded twenty-six years earlier". J'aurais mis "had founded".
Page 126 : "Mrs Crump was eighty years old and looked all of it. Her husband died long ago, and her five children were scattered around the country." J'aurais mis "had died". ago se réfererait à l'instant de la rencontre entre l'avocat et Mrs Crump, before se référerait à maintenant.
Page 207 : "They were living in a car. They were from a small town just over the line in Hopper County and since they lost their home a month earlier Pamela had been looking for a lawyer to rescue them." J'aurais mis "had lost".
Page 215 : ( Une femme qui avait porté plainte pour violence conjugale et avait demandé le divorce se rétracte quelques jours plus tard) " The morning's second crisis erupted minutes later when Phoebe Fanning arrived unannounced with her husband Randy (released from jail three days before) and informed Annette she was dropping her divorce.... The two lawyers had the same thought: Did he beat her again to coerce her to drop everything?
J'aurais écrit "Had he beaten her", il n'y a pas de guillemets. Ou alors, est-ce une espèce de discours indirect libre, comme si on se replongeait dans la phrase en direct, lorsqu'elle aurait pu être prononcée ?
Page 262 : " the call came at 5:20 and the news was great. Donovan had his million-dollar verdict; three million to be exact, the amount he asked from the jury." j'aurais mis "he had asked".
Page 331 ( Un ami de l'avocat s'introduit dans une usine pour photocopier des dossiers compromettants) "He copied thousands of documents and put the originals back in the files as if nothing happened." J'aurais écrit "had happened".
Page 367 (après l'assassinat de l'avocat Donovan, la partie adverse refuse de payer) " It was unfair for the defendant to back out simply because the plaintiff's attorney was now dead... So far, no-one in Donovan's office could (had been able to) find anything in writing. It looked as though they reached (had reached) a deal on the phone, but no settlement memo was (had been) prepared before he died (had died).
Page 368 : "Francine Crump died at 4:30 that afternoon. She never regained consciousness, nor did she get around to revising the will Samantha prepared."
J'aurais mis "had prepared".
Page 368 : "She had thought about sex more in the last twenty-four hours than at any time in the last two years, since she broke up with Henry." J'aurais mis "had broken up".
Page 404 : "She closed her eyes and told him to be careful. She also knew he would spend the rest of his life trying to find the men who killed his brother." J'aurais mis "had killed".
Page 425 : "She spoke to Mr Gantry as he fetched his newspaper off the sidewalk. He was pushing ninety, lived alone since his wife died last year." J'aurais mis "had died".
Page 455 : Two days before, on Gray Mountain, Samantha had again seen the white cross marking the spot where Rose took her life." J'aurais mis "had taken".
Page 457 (Buddy, mineur silicosé, s'est suicidé, sa maladie et ses indemnités n'ayant jamais été reconnues par la mine. Les deux avocates discutent de son cas) : " I have a question for you : If Buddy had a lawyer ten years ago, what would have happened to his case ?" J'aurais mis "had had".
C'est quand même récurrent, je trouve, dans la littérature courante surtout américaine, de ne plus faire de concordance des temps.
Réponse : Concordance des temps/John Grisham de sherry48, postée le 02-03-2024 à 21:45:00 (S | E)
Hello gerondif.
It is true that Americans sometimes prefer to use simple tense instead of perfect. The only other case that I am aware of where this may be true is in reported speech. Have you seen other cases where the tense is not as expected?
Just curious...
Sherry
Réponse : Concordance des temps/John Grisham de mamylistele, postée le 04-03-2024 à 13:55:56 (S | E)
et
pour ces remarques très intéressantes sur cette lecture de John Grisham. Il faut se rappeler que c'était un juriste avant de devenir un écrivain. Cependant j'ai adoré The Firm et The Pelican Brief. Je vais essayer Gray Mountain 
Réponse : Concordance des temps/John Grisham de gerondif, postée le 04-03-2024 à 18:43:48 (S | E)
Bonjour et merci !
Je ne vois ces réticences sur l'antériorité que chez Grisham et un peu Peter James. Je n'ai pas lu d'autres œuvres d'autres auteurs récemment. Sûr que je ne l'aurais pas trouvé chez P.D. James ou Elizabeth George ou Colin Dexter.
Là, je lis "The Whistler", toujours de Grisham ( j'en ai commandé un stock chez awsomebooks.com, livres d'occasion) et je retrouve quelques prétérits à la place de past perfects.
Je me demande comment ça peut passer avant impression. La seule réponse que j'ai est que ça ne sonne pas faux à l'oreille du correcteur.
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