Had better/would

Had better/would
Message de willios posté le 30-09-2012 à 12:48:38 (S | E | F)
Hello,

Could you help me please!
I know that "had better" is used to express an obligation,a recommendation and up to today I have never seen "would better", so I'm confused...
What is the meaning of "would better"? Is it the same than "had better"? If not what is the difference?
Thank you for your answers.

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Modifié par lucile83 le 30-09-2012 13:29

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Réponse: Had better/would de gerondif, postée le 30-09-2012 à 13:33:57 (S | E)
Hello,

the answer I am going to give you comes from "a grammatical dinosaur".

We used to learn something like:
I had rather play than work but I had better work than play.
I'd rather play than work but I'd better work than play.
As had could be reduced to 'd, it was clear that it was an auxiliary verb in a special pattern which meant:
Je préférerais jouer plutôt que de travailler mais je ferais mieux de travailler au lieu de jouer.

So,"I had better work" does mean: je ferais mieux de travailler au sens de "it would be better for me to work."

"I would better work" n'avait donc aucun sens et n'apparaîssait que comme erreur de la part de ceux qui confondaient
'd de would et 'd de had.

(Le sens était d'ailleurs différent quand on disait: He would work better if he went to bed earlier.)

la même chose se produit sur l'expression parallèle:
"I had rather see that film tomorrow" qui devient: "I would rather see that film tomorrow" au sens de "je préférerais: I would prefer to see that film tomorrow, I'd prefer to see it tomorrow...)
là , bien qu'à l'origine, ce soit aussi la confusion des deux 'd, would passe bien et "I would rather" est devenu correct et courant.
(Voyez d'ailleurs la remarque suivante de Lucile:" Note that 'had rather' is not used any more in modern English." qui confirme ma définition en première ligne )


Pour votre "I would better work",je suis plus réservé, bien sûr, il sonne archi-faux à mes vieilles oreilles.....
"I had better hurry up" = I'd better hurry up" = je ferais mieux de me dépêcher.

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Réponse: Had better/would de lucile83, postée le 30-09-2012 à 13:36:12 (S | E)
Hello,

'Would better' doesn't exist.
The right expression is 'had better'.

Don't get mixed up with 'would rather' = to prefer
Note that 'had rather' is not used anymore in modern English.

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Réponse: Had better/would de sherry48, postée le 30-09-2012 à 14:27:24 (S | E)
Hello.
Would better seems to require another verb...would do better, would have better, would be better, etc. Lucile is right that would better doesn't exist. Sherry

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Réponse: Had better/would de notrepere, postée le 30-09-2012 à 17:20:42 (S | E)
Hello gerondif

I'm not sure your expression is correct. I've never heard "had rather". I think it should be:
I'd (I'd = I would) rather play than work but I'd (I'd = I had) better work than play.

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Réponse: Had better/would de gerondif, postée le 30-09-2012 à 17:49:15 (S | E)
Hello, notrepère,

you have probably never heard of it but it was used and taught in the seventies, although already old-fashioned.

This is what my grammar-book from my student-days says:

The expressions: "I had better, I would rather, I would sooner, I would just as soon" are like defective verbs: They exist only in the modal preterite and don't use do or the complete infinitive.

The following forms "I had rather, I had sooner , I had as soon" are much less used nowadays than "I would rather, I would sooner, I would as soon", in general conversation, people usually say "I'd better" "I'd rather".....
and for them, nowadays meant 1970, so I am not surprised.

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Réponse: Had better/would de notrepere, postée le 30-09-2012 à 18:07:49 (S | E)
Hello

I'm flabbergasted! Yes, the 1970s is like the stone age. But you are correct. I shall never doubt you again.

Usage Note: In expressions of preference rather is commonly preceded by would: We would rather rent the house than buy it outright. In formal style, should is sometimes used: I should rather my daughter attended a public school. Sometimes had appears in these constructions, although this use of had seems to be growing less frequent: I had rather work with William than work for him. This usage was once widely criticized as a mistake, the result of a misanalysis of the contraction in sentences such as I'd rather stay. But it is in fact a survival of the subjunctive form had that appears in constructions like had better and had best, as in We had better leave now. This use of had goes back to Middle English and is perfectly acceptable. ·
Lien internet

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Réponse: Had better/would de lucile83, postée le 30-09-2012 à 18:54:08 (S | E)
Hello dear np

As I started teaching English in 1969, I thank you for saying that the 1970s is like the stone age!
In my message at 13.36 I wrote: Note that 'had rather' is not used anymore in modern English.
But it was still used in the 1970s You were too young at that time I suppose to be interested in languages
See you later

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Réponse: Had better/would de notrepere, postée le 30-09-2012 à 19:22:48 (S | E)
Hello Lucile

I posted in haste and didn't even see your message. Yes, in 1970, I was 6 years old and wasn't at all interested in languages. In 1970, the personal computer wasn't even invented. We were still using manual typewriters. It does seem like the stone age.

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Modifié par notrepere le 30-09-2012 22:14
Yes, come on over. I'll feed you some bread and water. That's what stone age people eat, isn't it?

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Réponse: Had better/would de willy, postée le 30-09-2012 à 20:52:44 (S | E)
Hello!

The 1970s! The Stone Age! "In OLDER English, "had rather" was used in the same way as "would rather". This structure is still found in grammars,but it is not normally used." ("Practical English Usage", Michael Swan, Third Edition, 2009, OUP)

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Réponse: Had better/would de lucile83, postée le 30-09-2012 à 21:00:50 (S | E)
shall we go to Seattle and demonstrate?
We're coming dear np! please get lunch ready for us

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